If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. Did the converter clutch material just wear out, thus allowing the clutch and cover to go metal-on-metal? TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. Your car is quick! or Best Offer . Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. Thx Every modern GM vehicle has one of these sheets in its glove compartment. Special engine computer programming strategies may be required. full. The 10-speed first appeared in the 2017 Camaro ZL1 backing up the 650-horsepower, supercharged 6.2L engine. check the starter bendix and see if its loose and bouncing off the flywheel. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. Beyond that, its probably not a good idea even if it will allow lockup because that clutch surface area is limited. I & II all that is needed is a Throttle position signal and Engine RPM. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). Even though it has two more gears, creative packaging allows the 10L80 transmission to be no bigger or heavier than an 8L90 or 6L90. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. 97 it's a, I have a 2007 h3 hummer base model. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. But tall highway gearing arent the only way that this transmission maximizes efficiency. and the maximum output torque is 664 ft. lbs. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. So why does the JMBX converter have this chronic problem? Cost and Process, Torque Converter Problems: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, Transmission Solenoid: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, 10 Pro Tips on Buying Used Transmissions For Sale, P0700: Transmission Control System Malfunction (TCM), Pontiac Firebird Transmission Problems & Cost | 4L60E / 4L65, Cadillac SRX Transmission Problems & Cost | 5L40E | 6L50 | 6T70, Ford Crown Victoria Transmission Problems & Cost | 4R75E / 4R75W / 4R70W, Chevy Equinox Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 / 6T45 / AW55-50SN, Saturn Aura Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 | 6T40 | 4T45E. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. But keeping the engine in its ideal RPM range allows the 10L80 transmission to operate with nearly the efficiency of a CVT transmission. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. But the replacement of this assembly requires new bolts. Hi Jeff, I have a 2016 Silverado with the 5.3 and the 8 speed transmission. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. Hi Jeff, The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! This product is NOT intended to be used on factory OE vehicles such as; Cadillac, Corvette, Camaro The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. Joined Feb 11, 2007 Messages 11 Location . Fifth 1.52 By combining a wide 7.39 overall gear ratio spread, with smaller steps between each gear, this GM 10-speed automatic transmission is able to keep the engine in its ideal power band during acceleration. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. Thought's? It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. JT. It's meant to be used with rear-wheel drive and it requires 8.4 quarts of fluid. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . Legal/Privacy. This is a normal and desired behavior. Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. Second 2.99 During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). As with earlier Hydramatics, the 6L80 will accept either the 258mm or 300mm torque converters. Gm hydro 10 speed. Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a36 spline. Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. ! Powerglide (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), TH350 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), TH400 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP), TH200-4R (bellhousing pattern - BOP, Fit-all), TH700-R4 /4L60 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet). If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. TIPM Problems! The 6L80 features a generously deep first gear for an automatic, making for favorably powerful starts from a standing stop. In fact, the only 2017 model year vehicle that still comes with this transmission is the Chevrolet SS. You will need to ship your transmission to us for the rebuild. Gilbert, Reply. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. But the cause he discovered was related to the pump. As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. Ninth 0.69 Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. GM states, ". To give you a sense of scope, for every single forged replacement cover that Sonnax sells for the 4L60-E TMBX, we sell many, many more for the 6L80/90 JMBX. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. Would love your thoughts, please comment. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. All Rights Reserved. What came first: the chicken or the egg? Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. Many who work in the dealerships have become privy to the immediate failures that occur in this unit. And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. LT). Third 2.15 Muncie M20 4-speed longitudinal wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Muncie, Indiana factory. Thats pretty much all thats to it. By reducing the rpm drop between gears, the engine remains within its power band. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. If you have any questions that I may be able to help you with, drop a comment or contact me. At part pedal, when acceleration is brisk, single-step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (a very short time in gear). They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. Running 12.60s at 111 is a fun ride! Reverse 4.87. All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. The 6l80E transmission are the same through the entire line with changes made thru production in electronics. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. Comes with a complete harness and the necessary software to program the TCM-2650 Module. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. Complaints of erratic shifting, poor shift quality, missed shifts, and other shifting and TCC control complaints are becoming more common with these units. While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. I would be willing to get it rebuilt, but want it to function like it should (not back to the way it came from GM). It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. Members The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. Account. We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. The TMBX and the JMBX have similar covers and use the same woven carbon friction material, yet the JMBX fails catastrophically at a very high rate and the TMBX cover rarely fails. It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. Most of us have either seen or heard of the new 10-speed transmission Ford is offing behind the 2.3L EcoBoost, 2.7L V6, 3.5L EcoBoost, 5.0L gas, and 3.0L Power Stroke Diesel engines. By utilizing more gearing, the 6L80 keeps the car in its power band longer, improving the MPG of the vehicle between 4-7% (over the previous generation fours speed transmissions) depending on the configuration of the vehicle that its in. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. It began replacing the 4L60E transmission in many vehicles starting in the 2006 model year. All previous GM automatic transmissions were virtually all based on hydraulic controls, and received increasing electrical elements as they modernized. Comparing that to our old TH-400 combo, wed need 5.40:1 rear gear to equal the overall First Gear ratio in the new Corvette. Shift the transmission to Neutral. It can also be controlled under DSC, or Driver Shift Control, e.g., "tap shifting". Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. See how the ratios have swapped places? Thanks for the question! However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. One common 6l80 issue due to design flaws include premature clutch failure. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application.

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