This pits apples to apples and will once and for all lay to rest all this ludicrous debate. How about some scientific caliber comparisons with the same type bullet and velocity range and most common weights. Some bullets are so fast, they dont deliver the force of the bullet. Its disturbing to me that we give up performance for comfort. There are tons of manuals and a ton of information so that you can write an informed post. laugh at the forensic expert and 2.) I still carry a Ruger P-97 in 45 ACP caliber. Real world combatants or keyboard commandos. Also, I question how much influence the logistics command had over this conclusion. I carry a 9mm myself, and train to rapid fire. While 9mm is not as good at killing men as the 45 Auto, it is smaller, lighter, cheaper, easier to handle, and allows more opportunities to miss the target.. Watch the .22 and the .223 tested on blocks of ballistics gelatin, a material that mimics human tissue. WebHuman Body 101 | National Geographic National Geographic 21.2M subscribers Subscribe 52K 3.3M views 5 years ago How does the human body work? Because bullet strikes to the torso will not immediately incapacitate an adversary and will not knock him to the ground, police officers need to use bullets that will neutralize an adversary as quickly as possible. Dr. Leana Wen, a trauma surgeon and the health commissioner for Baltimore, about the especially devastating effects of expanding rounds: often. But its easy tell which one of you are the idiots, and those of us that actually know are trying to skate uphill teaching those that dont. Police, f.b.i., military have smaller people with smaller hands that need to be accomadated. Handgun wounds include the first three of these factors, but generally do not include the fourth. Another deputy acquired a .45 and was having trouble being able to qualify with it. Even after suffering multiple 9mm gunshot wounds, victims are capable of fleeing considerable distances. I had a Sig P320 and the recoil is not that much greater. Military ball ammo leaves some things to be desired. Its only popular because of the name brand, not the true performance against other guns. Media in category "Human body" The following 64 files are in this category, out of 64 total. This is why you must choose your weapon carefully and train with it diligently. The fact is you will rarely ever have perfect conditions to take the well-placed shot. They should have several different handguns depending on the shoot I myself at 6 to 200 pounds and have a large chance by far the best pistol Ive ever shot is the 1911. Glad you are doing well. That said today I only carry my 5th gen Glock 19. The only gun I could get to in time was a Glock 17 loaded with 115 grn jhp ammo. Weve known this for, what, eighty years now? Because recoil obviously cant be observed and you have to shoot someone huh, I heard of a police officer shooting a dog 6 times with a 9 mm before being able to incapacitate the dog. This type of damage is known as permanent cavity. If you kill one, you take one out of battle. This is pretty interesting BTW https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/. What more and more people are choosing is CAPACITY. Work scenarios out in your head before they happen. The test results disclosed that the .45 round displaced an average of 4.22 cubic inches of tissue, the 10mm round 4.11 cubic inches and the 9mm round 2.82 cubic inches. Sick and tried of people not in the field deciding what is best for those in the field. 2. Because you are making a decision based on the fact that something (9mm) didnt work. The .223 weighs in at 55 grains, while the .22 is usually 45 grains or smaller. I know they dont keep records like this; but if you could count all the rounds fired in a battle, and how many kills were made by each caliber; would that not be a better indicator of the efficiency of the caliber. thanks for your time, greg. Another, was a 300lb black bear. Ballistics engineers try to balance speed, mass, and surface area to make the most effective round possible. I hear arguments attempting to compare a 9mm Gold dot bullet (a hollow point expanding bullet) to a .45 Hydrashock bullet (a hollow cavity expanding bullet with a hardened sabot embedded in the cavity. cause if they did there would not be so many innocent victims being injured and killed all because they couldnt hit the side of a barn with a soft ball from 5 ft. I think the pain element is still to much with paint balls for Obamas new policy I think dart guns with the rubber suction cups would be more his speed. The FBI Training Division reported in May 2014 that officers, on average, strike an adversary with only 20 percent to 30 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident. Sorry for the lengthy comment just my humble opinion. It definitely doesnt mean the ability to kill the target. Do give the Walther PPS serious consideration. Also the .45 will ring your ears like hell and most self defense scenarios are you are not wearing ear protection. Someone may be laughing but I am given to understand that over in Iraq and Astan there are people who frequently HAVE had to chase down individuals who have been wounded with a handgun. The difference Is not all soldiers are comfortable shooting the heavy recoiling 45 round. We were already running +P for our 9 9mms. He was a deputy sheriff. WebChronic kidney disease is a disease characterized by progressive damage and loss of function in the kidneys. Ruger already dominates the American handgun market, and they are very profitable, so it may not have been worth it to them. .45 ACP 10 Round Magazine mobility debuff removed, and .45 ACP 17 Round Magazine mobility increased from 96% to 98%. The one magor factor that keeps deciding the outcome is if the victim or assailant has the actual ability to kill. When i was in the military in the 60s we still were using hard ball ammo and the same still applied. Use your heads!! When fragmentation occurs, the permanent cavity expands rapidly and dramatically. Colt Defender 3" 45 ACP; Colt Gov't 70 Series; Kimber Warrior, w/ Rail; Kimber Warrior II; Kimber Super Carry Pro; Kimber Super Carry Ultra, 45 ACP, 3" Remington 1911 R1 Enhanced 5" 45 ACP; Ruger SR1911 Commander 4 Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless the is bone different muscle mass fat and other bonds in our bodies The quibble is over. The Smith & Wesson Model 26 is a target style revolver chambered in .45 ACP. .45 ACP FMJ doesnt normally make bad people flop to the ground instantaneously unless it hits the brain or spinewhich is probably what happened, given his skills. In Walmart I carry a p99 Walter. A .22 will kill you, but it wont blow your head apart, he said. They argue that the 9mm round has more penetrating power because the round faces less air resistance on its nose as it flies through the air. What kind of insane non-scientific reasoning is this? The latest testing shows that modern 9mm performs pretty much as well as the other common semi-auto options, and since it carries more rounds and is easier to shoot (and I dont care who you are, but it is easier/faster to shoot compared to the larger calibers), it is fairly sound logic to select the 9mm. Ive come to a conclusion that many people lean towards the 9 mm including the military because its easier to control and thus are more accurate, especially for a teenager fresh out of high school. there is no substitute for Cubic Inches. Now call me a troll as I suspect you may be in love with your clunky Glock and .9mm round. American troops in the Philippines discovered this important distinction in the late 19th century. So that is where the saying and belief came from. But to suggest they made the change due to the reasons quoted aboveparticularly because the 9mm supposedly has greater penetration due to less air resistanceis complete hogwash! I carry a number of different calibers depending on what Im wearing that day and where I intend to go; but I no longer even own a 9mm. He sure has screwed us military retires over the last several years! Mabe you are just faster and things work out like the movies. Mr. But Im my opinion, they are tools! For example, a shot through the side of the body must penetrate between 10 to 12 inches to hit the heart. Also ALL handgun calibers are susceptible to ricochet especially when compared to rifle rounds. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet at 600 ft/s will penetrate 4' plate glass. It was modified to accept a detachable magazine and equipped with a folding stock. Semiautomatic rifles dont shoot the largest bullets on the market. Like John Saunders, I also used a M1D scoped. Youll shoot how you train is one, but many dont train. Alvin York was a prodigy, a natural marksman of frankly terrifying and borderline-supernatural skill. Meaning the shooter, where a second shot will go off up in the air. Penetration of 7" pine boards for various pistol calibres: Illustrative penetration capabilities of a 30-06 full -jacketed rifle bullet at a velocity of 2700 ft/s and at a range of 200 yd: 1" of armour plate 7" of gravel 4.5" of brick 4" of concrete 32" of oak wood 6.5" of dry sand 7" of moist sand 26" of loam 24" of clay 19" of loose earth 60" of 1" pine boards, Continue reading here: General wound ballistic concepts, FREE Military Tough 6-in-1 Tactical Survival Knife, Free 2nd Amendment Gun Rights Silver Coin, Green Beret Master Sergeant Home Security Checklist, Winning Plays Texted To Your Phone That Comes Directly From An Elite Team Of Sharps, Ballistics Theory Straight Line Muzzle To Target, Internal External and Terminal Ballistics, High Standard Pistols - Firearms identification, Drop In Auto Sear - AR15 to M16 Conversion. Handgun velocities top out at around 1,500 fps at the muzzle. Wondering if these Marine special operators are not only allowed but required to carry exclusively the 15-round Glock 19, why not the slightly larger and higher capacity Glock 17? The USMC changed to 9mm since female Marines had trouble with recoil and were not qualifying at same rate as males. Our PD Captain has suggested that if I wish to carry, as a civilian, that I carry a .45 cal. Its why neck-down cartridges for .223 are even used. A .50 Desert Eagle is no good if you cannot carry it and get it out and shoot it accurately and fairly quickly, no matter what the knock-down power if you were able to hit anything with it. WebThe.45 acp proved an effective round with greatly improved stopping power. For almost 17 years that I carred a badge I carried a S&W 357 on a K frame. Its hesitation that makes people miss. In his 1989 treatise, Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness, Supervisory Special Agent Urey Patrick explained that the goal of an officer in a life-threatening shooting incident is to incapacitate the adversary as quickly as possible. I personally dont find much difference in recoil between a compact 9mm and compact .40 S&W; but I recognize and am sympathetic to other shooters who do. The latest in 9mm bullet tech performs much better than in the past on windshields. For a bullet to be effective for law enforcement, it must be able to penetrate the body between 12 and 18 inches to reach large vital organs to cause rapid blood loss. Yes, yeas I have. Shooting another person is only done with the intention to, at the very least, incapacitate the subject to protect the physical safety of others. Four ribs had essentially turned to dust. Just happened to recall the powerful 10 auto cartridge. At least to the U.S. Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command (MARSOC), there is no longer a question. 15 -25 yards lol I can hit you in between the eyes with my co2 bb pistol. Thats because the 7.62 is almost twice as massive as a .223. You probably wont feel as much pain in your hands or joints when the rounds go off as when youre practicing on the range. Testing shows terminal ballistics of modern 9mm is virtually the same as the .40S&W or the older .45ACP round. But I have some serious doubts about his understanding of external and terminal ballistics. I do not argue with this decision; however, I believe agents who can control the larger weapons/bullets without a problem should have the choice to carry weapons with the larger bullets. This was not a good CC carry eather so for a while I did not carry CC. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. How about a discussion of American made vs foreign made weapons for our military? Just came down from AK and bears and mad moose have been my biggest issue. Well, depends on whom you ask. Much of the difference is Spend the little extra money and get the 5.56 chambered AR so you can safely shoot the higher pressure and accurate 5.56 ammunition and leave the .223 in the store.

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